Sustainability and "TheEnoughness" in Fashion with Melanie Rickey

David M. Watts [: 00:00:01

Hello and welcome to just a fashion minute with me, David M. Watts. This is more than a podcast. It's a movement, a call to redefine fashion and spotlight the talent that's shaping its future. This is just a fashion minute with me, David M. Watts. Last week I spoke to Julian Vogue, all about the changing face of PR and fashion. It was an amazing conversation.

David M. Watts [: 00:00:29

If you haven't already, give it a listen. On today's episode, we're joined by Melanie Rickey, where we'll be discussing overconsumption and the concept of enoughness. Melanie is a trailblazer in fashion journalism and sustainability. She's known for her transformative work at Grazia magazine as a fashion editor at large and her advocacy for ethical fashion. In our conversation, we discussed Melanie's experience in the fashion industry and overcoming addiction. We also discussed how fashion has become so pervasive, over consumed, and who should be held accountable. But as always, let's kick the show off with my just a fashion minute roundup as we are looking to talk about the whole industry. It would be remiss if we didn't mention the big changes reported recently at Hennes and Margaret's or H M as we know it.

David M. Watts [: 00:01:20

The CEO, Helena Helmerson, who has the other company for four years, has recently exited, saying the role was very demanding and that she didn't have the energy to carry on in the job. Rather unexpectedly, she is now being replaced by Daniel Irvey. Although only 42, Irvey has been at H and M for 18 years, some might say a lifer. It's no secret H and M have been having a rough time at retail and seem to have lost the lustre of fast fashion, having been left in the shade by Zara and Xing. H m are known for producing too many products and have had issues with unsold products that are being sent for disposal, usually landfill. In overseas territories, most fashion apparel cannot be recycled. The business is not vertical, which means they don't produce their own raw materials, nor do they manufacture in their own factories. So this adds huge challenges and costs to its supply chain management.

David M. Watts [: 00:02:16

Extended producer responsibility in Sweden is looking at actually changing the laws to force these manufacturers to change the way they are producing fashion. I think this is just the beginning of how legal ramifications are going to impact on fashion manufacturers, and it's a good thing. Fashion Month autumn winter 24 season Mark Jacobs held a 40th anniversary catwalk show in New York City and had the press and fashion crowd in a little bit of a Tiz. The show was, as usual, walking a fine line between creative genius and over the top spectacle. To say the models were presented as 50s cutout paper dolls is only half of it. Enormously teased. Boomhon hairstyles and clothes that look like almost two dimensional instead of three dimensional were sights to behold. Was it wearable fashion? That's open to debate, but that doesn't actually matter, as when so many of us are decrying the total lack of creativity in fashion right now.

David M. Watts [: 00:03:16

Rest assured, this was a breath of fresh air for sure. Gap Inc. Has appointed Zach Posen as its new chief creative officer, as it seems that the troubled US corporation is looking to make big changes once again. The once beloved gap has been steadily faltering year on year, and in spite of being a huge business, commercially turning over about $16 billion a year, it never managed to win back fans or the fashion press. A whole host of creative directors have passed through the doors, and the latest is 80s wild child Zach Posen. He of the red carpet gowns worn by many celebrities, Posen was a darling of the fashion set and rose to meteoric fame, only to run into serious difficulties with his business, which hampered his growth. He also used up most of his fashion oxygen, and the fashion press, who are known on occasion to be a tad fickle, also fell foul of him. As the saying goes, the people who show up for your coronation will also show up for your beheading.

David M. Watts [: 00:04:20

People love a show. Posen unsuccessfully relaunched his business on several occasions and finally shuttered House of Zed in 2019. Is he the right man to lead the new creative impetus? A gap Inc. I'm not sure his creative DNA is the right match for a leisure and denim business, but we shall see. Men and nail polish so what is it with all these sports stars painting their fingernails? Since Brad Pitt sported rainbow painted fingernails at the 2015 Palm Springs Film Festival, it might seem as if male polish has been transitioned from a goth expression into the male mainstream, but the concept isn't entirely new. According to a 2018 paper from the University of Rochester Medical center, men were coloring their fingernails as far back as 3500 years BC. According to research in Babylon, male warriors adorn their fingernails with ground minerals as part of a pre battle ritual designed to intimidate their enemies. Seems like it's still working today.

David M. Watts [: 00:05:28

Salmon, the caring owned luxury brand, is dipping a toe into more experiential retail with the launch of a new bookstore in Paris called Babylon. Located at nine rude Grennell. The space is aiming to bring those salon fans who wish to dip a toe into more cultural activities. Read that as art books and even vinyl, where you can sit and read and even listen to records on concealed record decks hidden under tables. How cool is that? We know that luxury is becoming as much about the experience as about buying a product. Babylon is definitely looking to become a cultural destination. And the items have been curated personally by Wendic and Anthony Vaccarello, who is the creative director of Saint Laurent. One to put on your to do list for the next time you visit Paris.

David M. Watts [: 00:06:17

Melanie, welcome to just a fashion minute. That's my up. What do you think?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:06:23

Well, lots of thoughts going through my mind. I'm interested. I mean, Mark Jacobs, that show in New York, it was so off kilter. It had so many references in it. But above all, it was beautiful and creative. And I think that's what really made me feel like it was special. And it made me think back to the Galliano show at the couture. That was just pure creativity.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:06:46

And so much of that is missing. So when you see it again, it reminds you why this industry, why I got into it. The creativity, the fizz, the goosebumps. When you see something magical, that's what we're here for.

David M. Watts [: 00:07:00

And that's why people still want to go to fashion shows. Absolutely amazing.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:07:04

Okay. And a few more things I wanted to touch on. Nail polish. Harry Styles, pleasing. He's really made the whole nail polish. Know there are many of them, but I think he's really popularized it. I definitely want to go to Paris and hang out in a Saint Laurent shop and play some records. Finally, on Gap and H M.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:07:23

They both feel to me like dinosaurs that need to be kind of elbowed off the stage. I know that sounds mean, but gap has so many other interests that they could right size it. Zach Posen could. Could make it more interesting rather than just acre upon acre of cargoes and t shirts. Gap was at its best when it refined what its offer was, and it worked with interesting people. So I look forward to seeing what could happen there on H m. They have so many other businesses under their umbrella. So you've got Arquette, you've got and other stories.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:08:01

They are businesses that have a point of view and a statement, and they have a vibe. I think h m seems to have lost, and I don't see why they need to keep piling it in.

David M. Watts [: 00:08:12

Yes. I mean, it's an interesting one with H and M because it's such a huge operation. But the problem is that that's almost come back to bite them because it's actually now become so huge, they've lost the magic, they've lost the shine, and they've lost how to make people want to engage with their fast fashion product, which is, we would leave people not to be doing as much shopping. So it is an interesting one to see what happens next with H and M. I agree.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:08:38

And also, what do they stand for? The only thing I can really think that they do is that amazing designer collaboration each. But even that's got like, oh, well, who is it this year? Oh, who cares? I feel like they've done that for so long. When I think of kind of rival to them, someone like Uniqlo, I know I can go there and get a good, stylish basic that will serve me in my wardrobe for a long time. Whereas if I think of H and M, I think of nothing. Yes, I don't have a thing. I think, oh, I can go there for that. There's literally nothing. So I think they've got a big worry on their hands.

David M. Watts [: 00:09:12

Indeed, today we're going to ask, when is enough ever really enoughness? Fashion is the second largest polluter on the planet after the oil and gas industry. So we are facing a huge problem, all of us. What can be done about it? Melanie and myself will talk about this a little bit later, but before we do, let's hear about where fashion came into Melanie's life.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:09:36

My career began at the independent newspaper. I'd been at college, at the London College of Fashion, where I studied fashion journalism. It's something I went into after my sister died of cancer. So I was determined to kind of have a life where my career, I was doing it for both of us, and we both loved the fashion industry, and I was very passionate about the whole journalism side. So Marion Hume, who was a great editor, hired me straight from college, and I was her intern. And then I rose up the ranks and worked there for almost five years. To me, that time, it was like the mid to late 90s. It was like getting a master's in journalism right in the thick of this incredible publication that covered things without any.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:10:26

It was independent, so we could say what we liked, we could cover what we liked. There was no limitations, and we got to do incredible things. So it was an amazing time.

David M. Watts [: 00:10:35

Fantastic. I have a quote to all those people who shut the door on my face, I'm coming back to buy the building. Has anybody ever closed the door in your face?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:10:46

I've had a few doors closed on know. I went for a job at Vogue with Alexandra Shulman. I didn't get the job but she was very lovely about it, really. I think a young gay girl from a council flat with a comprehensive school education who came of age dancing on a nightclub podium maybe wasn't quite vogue material at that time. But there are other people out there who have closed the door. They know who they are. And I always took rejection very badly and found it very crushing. So it took me a long time to kind of recover and refind my way around.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:11:24

But you get there and I think that kind of rejection makes you stronger and you regroup and you think, okay, I can see why that might have happened or how I can improve. And that's kind of how you evolve, isn't it?

David M. Watts [: 00:11:37

I lecture at the moment and I tell some of my students, fashion is actually really tough and you have to be able to toughen up and you have to be resilient, but you also have to be so passionate about it, because if you don't have the passion, you won't last.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:11:51

In fashion, there's so many rules, there's so many ways of being lines you can cross. Invisible lines. When I entered into this industry, there was a very strict code. And in fact, the second person I worked with was Hilary Alexander, who, the iconic old school editor who put me through my paces. Exactly how you do things. And I'm very grateful for that old school education because I've been able to pass that on to many other assistants who've then gone on to have great, you know, those codes are things you have to learn the proper way. You have to do it right.

David M. Watts [: 00:12:28

And in fact, that just reminds me, because you had an assistant, Bethan, who you brought on board, who went on to be an incredible person in the industry.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:12:38

That's right. I hired Bethan as my assistant when I ran a blog called fashion editor at large around the end of the, you know, I always think of remember her literally fresh from university, still in her uni jumper. I could imagine her, like, cramming the hours in, but she had absolutely what it took. I put her through her paces and now she's sailing happily into a very successful, very successful career and a great person.

David M. Watts [: 00:13:06

I remember lovely, lovely person, which is fantastic. Again, that little bit of how the way that your training also then kind of tipped over into how you help somebody else in terms of giving them a rigorous training in fashion. But it needs that in journalism.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:13:21

Yeah, you have to pay it forward. You absolutely have to pay it forward. And you've got to think about every single person you interact with throughout your career, because one day you may be climbing the ladder for a number of years, and then one day you'll look around, and the person who you helped onto the ladder is at the top of the ladder. It's a circle of life, circle of fashion.

David M. Watts [: 00:13:41

I know. And something I say again to my students, I said, don't dis the assistant.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:13:47

Never.

David M. Watts [: 00:13:47

Because you never know where that person is going to end up in your life's career, let alone their career.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:13:54

100%. I always meet people who I've seen on the way up, and I've always got good things to say about them and them to me. And it's been a very strict rule of mine to be as nice as possible.

David M. Watts [: 00:14:04

But you have a great reputation. I can say I've known you quite a long time. Not all of our fashion careers, but at least nearly 15 years, I think. But we also know that fashion has a little bit of an infamous reputation with regards to having people who are not so nice. But that's a whole other conversation.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:14:22

It's true. And it's about being of service to the community that are rising up, because without them, there's no freshness, and you got to welcome people in. And also, I personally find giving back the most satisfying thing, and it's the only thing I truly love, if I'm really honest. Those were always the highlights. Interacting with young designers, seeing fresh ideas. It's where I get my energy.

David M. Watts [: 00:14:48

Amazing. You have talked openly and frankly about your personal issues with addiction and spending time in rehab. Do you connect your life in fashion and maybe some of the pressures of that industry with the ensuing problems that you faced?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:15:03

Well, how long have you got? No, but first and foremost, what I want to say is that I absolutely loved rehab. It gave me more than I could have ever have dreamed possible. It helped me understand my problem, and it taught me how to live with a better solution for life. That's the first thing I want to say. The second thing I want to say is that when you learn what ails you, you can see almost always that it began a lot earlier. You have to unpack the stuff that you've been popping away for far too long.

David M. Watts [: 00:15:40

Filing away.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:15:41

Under filing away.

David M. Watts [: 00:15:42

Do not disturb.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:15:43

No. So I would say my entree into the fashion world. I was able to put away everything that bothered me and kind of launch myself into fabulosity. And addiction is progressive. So if you're a young woman living a champagne lifestyle with beans on toast, actual income, obviously, the work was first and foremost what I was about. But the parties and the fun and the travel. There was always alcohol, and there was often always cocaine lurking around in the back rooms with a lot of people. And over a period of time, I would say it's progressive.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:16:23

I got dependent on those things until I got to a point where I didn't want to do it, but I still was. And there was this horrible stop gap between, I don't want to do this, I don't know how not to do this. And that point was where I thought, okay, I need help. And it was life changing. And it taught me everything that I live by today. And I'm happier, healthier, more confident than I have ever been, and more myself than I've ever been. And it's all about unpacking the problem. The reason I did it was because I was trying to be my best self, get the confidence to just be.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:17:07

But after a while, the problems knock and you have to deal with them. You have to open the door and get all the dark stuff out and look at it, deal with it. That's what I did and it freed me.

David M. Watts [: 00:17:20

I mean, it's very interesting because I think people, and I've had this conversation with other people about going into therapy, you have to identify and unpack the problems, but also you have to want to deal with them. And that's why people stay in therapy for years and years and years, because it's very nice to sit in a room and talk about yourself. Some people find that really fun, but they don't actually really deal with the problems. They just identify the problems and it just goes around in a circle.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:17:49

Well, this is why the twelve step program kind of is amazing, because a lot of people think it's a bit culty or whatever, but actually it's incredibly practical. It's a way of unpacking your crap. One of the steps, step four, is the one where you literally write out every annoyance, every resentment, every kind of thing you've ever done, and you chat about it with someone else and tell the truth.

David M. Watts [: 00:18:12

It's the ultimate long list.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:18:14

It's the ultimate unpacking moment. And that is what people are avoiding in therapy, because they're just self indulgent navel gazing, but they're not getting to the problem. This forces you to face it, and it's actually brilliant. Like, it's so revealing and freeing, which I always say I think everyone should do a step four.

David M. Watts [: 00:18:37

Okay, that's very interesting and very honest. Before we take a break, I want to ask you a question that I'm going to ask all my guests. How do you define fashion?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:18:49

Oh, my God, David, how do you define fashion? When I was younger, I would have said is a creative and cultural expression of the times we live in. It's us expressing ourselves in the moment that we're in with the people that we know. And when you look back over the decades, each decade of the 20th century, from the 40s on, you can instantly see what decade it was because of what people are wearing. And then you can start analyzing, oh, the late 40s was the new look. We had punk. We had minimalism. It's also about who we want to be, our dreams, our desires. It's about us.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:19:32

It's about how we want to connect in society, who we want to be, where we see ourselves. So that's my definition of fashion. But today, it's a bit darker than that. I think it's no longer about the clothes we wear or our hopes and dreams and who we want to be. It's become a story about business. It's become about capitalism, growth, the stories of cotton farmers, polluted, dried up rivers, underpaid workers, and all the know if I see something, when I see someone wearing something I know is made of oil, I get the ick. And it really makes me think of that quote. It's by a scientist called John Muir.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:20:08

And it's when we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe. And that's kind of what's happened to fashion. You can't look at it on its own anymore. It's interconnected across the whole planet. And when you see it, that connectedness to everything, you can't unsee it.

David M. Watts [: 00:20:28

I totally agree. More on this after the break. This is just a reminder that you're listening to just a fashion minute with me, your host, David M. Watts. Let's get back to the show. Welcome back to just a fashion minute. As I touched on at the start of the show, the fashion industry is an astronomically growing industry. It's expected to surpass more than $2.5 trillion in annual sales by 2025.

David M. Watts [: 00:20:55

Consumer shopping for fashion is spiraling out of control with a huge impact on the environment. And it's not just fast fashion. Fashion is the second largest polluter on the planet. So we are facing a huge problem. Part of the reason fashion has become so damaging is, ironically, because it is so pervasive. It has become so pervasive, it reaches across our entire culture. Music, art, sports, entertainment. Before we talk about the damage and what it's done, why do you think fashion has become so pervasive.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:21:28

I think people want to belong and feel part of culture, and I think they've forgotten that they have a choice about who they could be and that they're outsourcing that choice to social media. And also, as the last 30 years have proven, first we had fast fashion, now we've got ultra fast fashion. You've got Taylor Swift at the Super bowl in a pair of a certain jeans, or it's just entered into every corner of our lives. And the way we can receive back that piece of fashion is almost instantaneous. There's no gap between wanting and having. But as that gap has become smaller and smaller and smaller, fashion itself has become more and more pervasive, because there's no gap between wanting and having. And that, I think, is the biggest problem we have.

David M. Watts [: 00:22:27

Should we look to the big fashion companies and the mega fashion corporations like the LVMH and caring, who own and control hundreds of luxury brands to point the finger at when it comes to producing more product?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:22:41

Well, this is an interesting one, because I think there are plenty of companies that the world does not need, but I think LVMH and caring are not on that list.

David M. Watts [: 00:22:52

Okay.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:22:52

Absolutely not. I think culturally, as houses or conglomerates, they bring a lot to culture and also their leaders, your pinot, Yourano, they are actually doing things for turning the Titanic, as they like to say, of where we've been going with luxury and increasing revenue growth for the last 2030 years. They know they have to do something and they are implementing sustainability pathways in their businesses, but it takes time. They're trying to implement changes in their supply chains and also they're making products. Well, how can we disagree with the idea that a Louis Vuitton bag is something you would have for the rest of your life? Now, I have a small suitcase by them that I got, gosh, 15 years ago today, it looks exactly the same as when I bought it. That, yes, the leather slightly changed colour, but it's aged like a good pair of jeans. But it is a product for life. Like, there's a lot of value to what they do, but it's just a case of right sizing the amount of it that they make.

David M. Watts [: 00:24:17

We've mentioned before that big corporations like LVMH and caring shouldn't necessarily be seen as culprits. Are there fashion companies that you think should be named and shamed?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:24:26

There are companies that should be named and shamed. I think chief among them is sheen, because they make so many products from oil and also they're incredibly cheap, so somebody somewhere is paying the price for that cheapness. Also, we need to keep in mind that there are people that can only afford sheen, so they've got to be able to right size what they do and not flood the market with absolute rubbish. So I think it's not throwing it out, it's just they're asking it to reconsider some of its practices. I mean, I'd like to see it go completely equally. H m. They've been accused of greenwashing, but like all these companies, they are trying to implement more sustainable practices and they do serve a purpose for people with less income. But I do think that they need to do more and take more action and make less stuff.

David M. Watts [: 00:25:19

Indeed. I mean, I think my part of the conversation about this is we're slightly polarizing. All fast fashion is bad, all luxury fashion is good. And when you start looking at the size and the scale of these luxury designer brands, Dior turning over 20 billion in annual sales. Louis Vuitton turning over 20 billion in annual sales. Gucci 10 billion. Regardless of how expensive those price tags are, 20 billion is a lot of product. So we have to kind of balance out the conversation as well at some point.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:25:54

Yeah, but I'd be interested to know, this is a huge conversation we're having, David. And when you break down the income of those luxury conglomerates, where's that 20 billion? What is it that's bringing that 20 billion? Is it key rings and perfume, or is it high ticket items or is a combination of the lot? But what we have seen is these businesses continuing to grow and that they measure their growth on last year. And just, if you just take a step back and think, can things grow forever? What's the answer? No. Well, things can't grow forever.

David M. Watts [: 00:26:36

We're coming to what is going to be. You know, my argument, and I literally have been discussing this with my, know, new territories growing, evolving aspiration in Asia, in India, they are presenting more opportunities for luxury. And the luxury brands are actually saying we can carry on growing. Now our population is growing and the aspiration doesn't go away. So in some respects, people are saying they can keep growing, but when is it going to be enoughness?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:27:14

Well, I disagree, okay, because I think the planet only has so many resources. We can't pull up another planet and start taking cotton leather from somewhere else. There is no planet b. Where is this growth going to come from? Where are these resources going to come from when you've already extracted most of them? Yes, you can grow more cotton. Yes, you can grow more animals, but there's going to come a point where we all think, how many is the right amount of Louis Vuitton bags that I need? Once you've got one, how many more do you need? Or how many more do you want? And is it realistic to continue to stockpile those things? For what? For what purpose? Why do you need so many? Isn't one or two enough? And there's a certain amount of logic to my thinking, which is the idea that these luxury houses think we're just going to continue to want that stuff forever. Yes, there'll be younger consumers coming in, but I think the generation growing up now, a lot of them are really questioning over consumption and they're really questioning what matters to them and what their values are. Yes, they may want one fabulous bag, then they might sell it and get another one, but they're not going to be filling up the flats they don't own in the spaces that they don't have enough wardrobe space for.

David M. Watts [: 00:28:43

To dressing rooms of designer collectibles.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:28:48

Yeah, I think the ultra wealthy, yes, they will continue in that vein, but there is a huge gap between people who can afford those things and the rest of the world.

David M. Watts [: 00:28:58

Indeed. I completely agree with you on that. So, in terms of us as individuals, do you think we would bear any responsibility for this overconsumption?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:29:09

Anyone who really appreciates good design and likes nice things or needs to close themselves? We are consumers, though. Time was that we would consider ourselves as citizens. But now humanity in and of itself is. We are called consumers and we take. Are we responsible? Well, I've crunched some numbers in the past, because the fashion industry's emissions, there is no hard fact, but they say it's that our global carbon dioxide emissions sit somewhere between four and 8% of the global total. Now, if you factor in the fact that the fashion industry uses, I think it's 1.3 billion barrels of oil per year to make all the plastic clothes out there, which will never biodegrade. Maybe that number could be bigger because we're talking about textiles, but the oil and gas are also huge polluters. But oil is also making fashion.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:30:06

So it kind of all gets a bit, whoa, where does it stop? But when I was crunching the numbers, one quarter of the emissions that fashion makes comes from us, people who buy the clothes and use them, or not use them, as the case may be. And the way it works is how we use the clothes. So most fashion houses don't sell 30% of their inventory. So all the fashion companies in the world, 30% of what they make does not sell. We buy clothes, we take them home. We don't wear 70% of what we own. Okay, just imagine a few piles. Like, imagine you're getting your washing ready, but it's really the planet in a pile of clothes.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:30:58

30% don't sell, 70% we don't wear. So it's kind of like going to the supermarket and getting ten bags of shopping and then throwing seven just in the garden, in the shed and just leaving them to fester. We don't need those things, so why have them? In a way, I think we're all, well, I don't want to sound like a sort of recovery warrior, but when I take a step back, I look at it, and I think we're all kind of addicted to owning and having things, and we've gone too far. We just need to kind of right size it and be like, what do I actually need? And when you see those stats and you see the waste from the companies that make the clothes and then the disregard of the clothes when we own them, it's mad, isn't it?

David M. Watts [: 00:31:45

Yes. We have been talking with Karen Franklin about the psychology of shopping, and actually some of our brains are being hardwired, and we're actually impacted on the way that we behave and the way that we want to acquire things to buy and to shop and to consume. It's quite scary in lots of ways.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:32:02

Well, I'm really fascinated by this subject, because as human beings, we are hardwired to avoid scarcity, and we need to make sure we have the right amount of things. But what's happened is that these big companies understand how brains are wired. They work with psychologists, quantitatives specialists, who deliberately manipulate us to buy more. So when Instagram was being invented, for example, they worked with brain scientists, essentially psychologists. And the like button was invented to precisely make us continue to scroll. But it's even more now with TikTok, even Deliveroo, all of them, and shopping, marketing messages, advertising messages, we are being manipulated to buy more. And this is where the enoughness comes in. What I learned in recovery was how to stop wanting.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:33:00

I got taught how to step away from that system, and I think we all kind of need to do it because we can't keep going the way we are. And actually what you end up with is exactly what you need. And it's like, oh, it's actually fine. Why do I keep going crazy in that direction when all I ever needed was this anyway? And the rest is just waste coming to the realization. Such a huge penny dropping moment. But it took a lot of pain and a lot of work to kind of understand it. There are a lot of people that don't believe that we can change. There are a lot of people like, oh, it's just how it is.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:33:40

We're just wired that way. It's just going to carry on. But unless somebody calls time on it and actually says, hey, look what's happening here, how will it change? But it has to. And then you end up in a circle of like. But the psychology of fashion. We are not hamsters in a wheel. We can actually get off.

David M. Watts [: 00:34:01

We can make a choice. We can make a choice. Absolutely.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:34:04

Yeah.

David M. Watts [: 00:34:04

I totally, totally agree. That brings us to the new project that tackles some of the issues that we've been talking about today, which is enoughness, your new project. What are you trying to achieve with this venture?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:34:18

Well, it's a lot. I'm trying to achieve a lot. And I think it's not something that can just be said in one line. But what if I told you you could have absolutely everything you needed, like just the right amount, that you could feel good about having it and feel like you were in total charge of your decisions and could live by your values and not feel that FOMO? What if I said you would fully use all the things you had, would not waste them, and feel perfectly satisfied with your life? And that is the ethos of what the enoughness is about. It's not going to land with people in one Instagram reel, one podcast, but it's a slow moving invitation to disengage from over consumption and right size your consumption by just getting what you need. And I think, as I pointed out a little bit earlier, we are living in an age of mass addiction. And I kind of liken it to like, Studio 54. There's a disco going on.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:35:22

Loads of people went to the party. The party was amazing. For years, women suddenly fashion got democratized. We could have what we wanted. We could have every trend under the sun. Oh, my God. It was amazing then. Oh, God.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:35:35

But having all of that meant that was happening in the global south. And these people were being damaged. Oh, that river ran dry. These people are being exploited. We can't keep going like this. So then the disco gets a little bit less fun. You're like, oh, gosh, it's not really that great, this disco. So then you leave the disco and you're like, oh, other people have seen that the disco is not happening anymore, but there are people still there.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:36:02

They're still at studio 54, they're still partying like nothing's happening outside. The truth of the matter is that loads of people have left the disco. Loads of people are saying, oh, hey, something's going on. You need to know about it. Some people recognize it. 92% of people want to be more sustainable. Guess how many actually are not 92%? 16%. And it's called the say do gap.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:36:27

Right. It's that thing between oh, my. Go on to stop, but I don't know how, so I'm not going to. And it's a little bit like addiction, actually. It's weird. There's so many parallels. So the way I see it at the moment is there are people still at the party, there are some people are doing something outside saying, oh, you know what? This isn't right. And we're reaching a point where the party is going to be over and we need a new way of doing it.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:36:49

Lots of people have been talking about the problem for a long time, like the activists. People are saying, we've got a problem, we've got a problem, we've got a problem. I'm here to say I've got a solution.

David M. Watts [: 00:37:00

Yes.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:37:00

And that is what I'm trying to do. I've only been doing it for a month, and I've got a lot of plans. I've got a strategy, I've got a roadmap. Things are coming online, but that's the plan.

David M. Watts [: 00:37:10

It sounds absolutely the right time. As I said, we just know that we are over consuming. And I say we collectively, we are being brainwashed, I believe, by the brands.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:37:24

Agreed.

David M. Watts [: 00:37:25

No question. Our own psychology, our own makeup. We also know that our own bodies, our brain produces dopamine. When we feel happy, we feel happy. When we shop, we get a hit of dopamine. Our own chemical makeup is making us shop more. Everything is stacked up against us as consumers in some respects, but we also have choice. We also have once.

David M. Watts [: 00:37:48

And it's also the thing about once it's shown to us, we can make a choice. We can say, well, actually, I'm not going to buy any more than one pair of denim jeans next year, because I don't need more than two, which is something I did a while ago. And that thing of people saying, I can't do anything about it. And we can. We can actually stop going into shops and buying more things. We can still go in and look and experience it, but you don't have to buy them, you don't have to acquire them, because sometimes just the looking and the trying on a hundred percent.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:38:17

I mean, I fell in love with fashion by looking at magazine.

David M. Watts [: 00:38:21

Me too. You talked about this before.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:38:23

Yeah, but you hit on it there, which is people think that they can't change because they don't know it's possible. Have you ever read the book sapiens by Noah Ew. Val Harari?

David M. Watts [: 00:38:37

No, I have not.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:38:38

It's a phenomenal book. And in it there was this little bit where he talks about the gorging gene, which is when we were hunter gatherers. If we were walking past a tree groaning with figs, our immediate reaction would be, guess what?

David M. Watts [: 00:38:54

Have to eat every fig.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:38:55

Have to eat the figs. Give me those figs. Because if I don't have those figs, someone else is going to get them. Well, guess what? We are not wired that way anymore. No, we are wired that way, but we don't have to live that way. We are like cacti in a rainforest. We've got too much stuff and we think we need to. I need to have it.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:39:17

I need to have it. But we don't. And I think as someone who's worked in the fashion industry for a long time, who's over consumed for a long time, who was in the thick of it, like buying, buying, buying. What I've learned in rehab is literally the wisdom that I feel everyone needs. And there's a brilliant book by someone called Dr. Anna Lemke. It's a bible for me. It's called dopamine Nation.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:39:40

And in the book she says that she believes, I fully agree with this, that people with addiction have evolved a wisdom perfectly suited to the age we live in now. Because we have a solution. We understand how to stop wanting, but have exactly what you need. And it's a revelation. And I think if everyone did that, we'd still shop. We'd still love the things that we bought. We'd probably buy things a little bit better and have them a little bit longer and we'd appreciate them and we would have what is sufficient to live a happy life. But as it is at the moment, we're getting it wrong.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:40:16

We're over consuming. We're buying things we don't need, made from things that are killing the planet. And for what? Because of what? We're hardwired. Like hunter gatherers. Like, come on, we can change. The brain is neuroplastic. We can change. But nothing changes unless you change.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:40:34

And it's us that has to change. It's the behavior change piece. It's the mindset piece. So it's finding that happy balance. So not ambitious or anything.

David M. Watts [: 00:40:44

Okay. It's a big undertaking and it will be very interesting to hear what happens next with enoughness.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:40:51

Thank you.

David M. Watts [: 00:40:52

The concept of enoughness can be quite vague. So has anybody tried to quantify what enoughness actually is?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:41:01

They have. They absolutely have. And for me, benchmarking just the right amount is part of a long term project for me. But what really got me inspired was a think tank called the Hot or Cool Institute, and they did a big report at the end of 2022 where they started looking at carbon dioxide emissions, the main cause of climate change and the world heating up, and how we could right size our emissions and what that would mean for our wardrobe. So they proposed a sufficiency wardrobe of 74 items that made up 20 outfits. Six for work, three at home, five for working out and sports, two for festive party occasions, and four for being out and about. I thought, oh, wow, wonder how that would look. Or how that would feel.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:41:52

I have more than 74 clothes items of clothing, because I've been building them up over my lifetime. But if you're young and you think, oh, 74 items, that's doable and it means I'm helping climate change or being sustainable is the kind of win win.

David M. Watts [: 00:42:06

Absolutely. I'm going to go home and check my wardrobe to see if I have 74 items or less. I would urge all the listeners to do the same. Maybe 74 is the new number.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:42:16

Could well be.

David M. Watts [: 00:42:17

How would you encourage future fashion leaders to adopt an enoughness mindset?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:42:24

Well, that's easy. So I think we have to imagine a world that is only sustainable. Like, for anyone young, the only way to go into fashion is in a sustainable way. End of story. Literally end of story. I was judging a competition last week with some young designers at LCF, and every single one of them said, well, it's the only way, isn't it? It's the only option we have is to either reuse, remake, or be 100% sustainable in our practices. So I think in lots of ways, young people are going to take care of that for us. But existing businesses need to change the way they speak to people.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:43:04

They need to adopt the idea of having just the right amount of things, not talk to consumers in an addictive way, using get it now, what you need, get your hit, all those kind of things.

David M. Watts [: 00:43:20

Language.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:43:20

The language is massively important. Something I was guilty of when my fashion career magazines such as Grazia, we had a section we would do every week. Get it before it goes like, quick quick, go buy it. Go buy it. That needs to be completely flipped. And also, businesses need to consider, like, how much do our clients need, what will serve them, what is good for them? And a lot of them do, but really make it part of their messaging, make it part of how they do customer service, make, repair and maintaining that item's life beyond the shop floor and the bag, going home. That there's that continued kind of connection between the client and the store, but also for them to impart that what you need from the shop floor, the point of retail, whether that's online or not, I think businesses have an opportunity to actually make their products more usable and more approachable by giving them an enoughness spin.

David M. Watts [: 00:44:21

Yes, we've had a really insightful episode, and it's a huge topic that is affecting all of us, everywhere in the world, and some people more than others. So it's really relevant. But let's lighten it up a little bit and take us back to fashion. Yes, let me take you through our three quickfire questions. So, number one, what's your most embarrassing fashion moment?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:44:49

Well, I think the most embarrassing fashion moment I had was in my early days when I was covering Milan Fashion week for the independent or the Sunday Times. I can't remember which. I think it was the Sunday Times. And I saw an empty seat on the front row in Armani's theatre. The show was about to start and I thought, I'll pop in there, sit down. Little did I know that it was being held for an a list star who was being whisked in at the very, very last moment before the lights went up. So I was asked to move very politely, but also extremely humiliated because it's full view of everybody and I'd made a faux par that I would never repeat again.

David M. Watts [: 00:45:38

Extraordinary. Yes, we've talked about the challenges at retail, but do you actually have a favorite store or a favourite retail experience?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:45:48

I've always loved liberty as a place to kind of have a wonder, and I love the history of it. But there's a store I've been going to kind of haunt just because I love hanging out in it. It's called Ame Leon Dore and it's a menswear boutique in Broadwick street. And there's just something about it that I just love. I love being in there. I love looking at the quality, I love the vibe, I love the staff, I love the music. It just makes me incredibly happy to be in there. It's got everything I love about retail.

David M. Watts [: 00:46:20

Fantastic. It's so interesting because it is a brand that is not as high on the radar here, but getting there. But the product is not extraordinarily different, but their approach, the styling, the way they turn even just the retail store into an experience. That artwork with the burst basketball I love. That is fantastic. And they've actually done collaborations with other brands. It is so interesting. And I cite him as a really cool retail experience.

David M. Watts [: 00:46:52

Yeah, really cool. Interesting that you should pick that one.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:46:54

I think it's just to just reiterate the feeling of being in there. You get met at the door, the door closes behind you. It's got this feel. It's dark but well lit. Every product is kind of highlighted in a sensory way that makes you want to look at it and touch it. I think those things are really missing from the retail experience. So I highly recommend people just go and feel the vibes.

David M. Watts [: 00:47:18

Feel the vibe. Feel the energy. Fantastic. And we have to ask. I have to ask, in your eyes, is there an unsung hero in fashion, somebody that you'd like to give a shout out to here on the podcast?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:47:32

Yes. I think I thought about this because there are so many phenomenal people in the fashion industry, so many incredible creative people, and so many people who are sung heroes. But there's one person, she's a professor, actually, and she's called Kate Fletcher, and she's been speaking the truth about what's going on. She was probably one of the first people to leave Studio 54 fashion party, and she basically talks about slow fashion. And she came up with this kind of concept called the craft of use, and she did a book about it in 2016. And her big revelation is, guess what? Wear your clothes more. Essentially, wear your clothes more. And there's something so lyrical and beautiful about the project she's done around it where she has found people that were willing to be photographed and shown them with a piece of clothing that see them passed down in their family or that they've remodeled as they've owned it through time.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:48:33

And there's just something so incredible about this subversive idea. Oh, my goodness. You really should wear your clothes and love them and cherish them and make them last. That has been entirely forgotten in our lifetimes. And I know that when I was young, my mother would take care of her clothes. My mother's 71, so it wasn't that long ago that we actually did it, and that today we kind of see them as very little more often than a plastic bag in and out the door into some landfills. Oh, onto the next and the more I get into the mindset of enoughness and this way of life, the more I look at it and just scratch my head in amazement at the madness of it all. And she really represents to me a kind of voice of reason that everyone should listen to.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:49:23

So definitely an unsung hero needs to be sung a lot more.

David M. Watts [: 00:49:27

Fantastic. That's really good. It has been so nice having a conversation today about a serious topic, but it's been really insightful for me, and we hope that we're going to have you back on the show some point in the future. But before we go, is there anywhere that people can find what you're doing? Do you want to give us Instagram?

Melanie Rickey [: 00:49:49

Yes. So I've started the enoughness on Instagram at the enoughness and the beginnings of what we're about and the kind of expansion of the story will be there. And hopefully when I come back sometime there'll be a lot more to report. But it's the beginning of a journey that I'll be on and sharing for a while to come.

David M. Watts [: 00:50:10

We wish you well with that journey.

Melanie Rickey [: 00:50:11

Thank you, David.

David M. Watts [: 00:50:14

In our next podcast, I will be speaking to Simon Frederick about the significance of black audiences in media, his impactful journey in photography and filmmaking, and the challenges and successes of creating content that truly represents the diversity of audiences. Be sure to check it out. Thank you for listening to just a fashion minute with me, David M. Watts. If you haven't already, please give the show a follow on your podcast app and on Instagram. For more information, you can email us at podcast@justifashionminute.com this show was produced by one fine play. Matt Cheney is a series producer, Kazra Ferrugier is a producer and editor. Selena Christophers is the designer.

David M. Watts [: 00:50:58

I have been your host, David M. Watts, and this has been just fashion minute.